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My Massive Wishlist (Migrated from the WS Forums and Now Organized!

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  • My Massive Wishlist (Migrated from the WS Forums and Now Organized!

    So, what with the board migrating here and the posts from the WS forums eventually being removed, and Antuan announcing he’s shifting his time over to MWR3, I’ve decided to repost my wishlist from there to here. Not sure if it’ll be read or considered, but I feel it’s worth a try anyways. But instead of just copy+pasting it exactly, as it spanned multiple pages and each thing was posted as I thought of it, I decided to organize it as best as possible. This includes re-wording things so they are both clearer and better fit together with proposed ideas, as well as removing redundant/repeated ideas.

    Each item is broken down into some loose categories (each getting their own page in this thread), and put in a specific order so that everything should (read:hopefully) make sense. The things I feel are most important are higher up in each category, while the things I feel are least important (but would still love to see) are lower in each category. There is a bit of crossover with some of these, but it’s all mostly put into the proper categories.

    The table of contents for this post are:

    Completely New Features
    -Expanded Record Labels and Label AI
    -CEO Mode
    -Talent Pool
    -More Logged Data
    -Learning New Instruments
    -More Release Types
    -Instruments (New and Editor Controlled!)
    -Steam/Workshop Support

    Features Either Using or Expanding Upon Existing (MWR2) Mechanics
    -Styles
    -Solo/Fire Member

    Revisions of Current Mechanics
    -Skill Degradation & Practice
    -Scheduling
    -Side/Other Projects & Precedence

    Implementation of Previous (MWR1 or earlier Music Wars iterations) Mechanics
    -Relationships and Random Events
    -Subjects (aka, “Multiple Song Themes”)
    -Subsidiary Recording Studios
    Last edited by YoungLondon; 05-25-2016, 11:51 PM.

  • #2
    New Features:

    -Expanded Record Labels and Label AI

    Buying out/forming subsidiary labels under your label is a pretty common thing (most labels are all owned by either Sony, UMG, EMI, or WMG) in the music industry, so it'd be interesting to have that reflected in game.

    It could be something as simple as viewing the Labels screen, clicking View to view their page, and having a button for "Offer to Buyout", or something along those lines. If the label's struggling financially, they may be open for it. Or if you're a major label, they'd be open to hear your offer due to your status/popularity and higher finances/potential for financial support. Once a label is bought out, I see two ways this could be handled.

    1. The Streamlined/"Simple" Way -
    You could copy how GamersGoMakers (a game studio management game, but the idea could still work) handled their subsidiaries, and have a screen which allows you to choose between certain presets. In that game, the three options were: Have studio support your games (not sure if there's anything equivalent here this could do, so nix this one), Have studio make games (which allowed you to specify genres and systems), and do nothing. You also had the option of shutting down the studio all together for a small fee. The second option seems like it could carry over.

    Specify specific genres or stat ranges for the label to look for in artists. They'd then go out and try and sign bands/artists who fit this preset criteria. Maybe make a return of the Business Strategy idea from MWR1 and allow the user to switch between these on this screen. If the existing way isn't working for a label, why not change it up and switch them from Quality Over Quantity to Commercial & Marketable. Or change their work strategy from Easy to Rigorous and make them earn that money. (this idea doesn't really work nicely with ideas added to the CEO section)

    2. The Slightly More In Depth Way
    On the home screen, where it shows your label and its info (date formed, location, etc), let there be a drop down menu somewhere that allows you to swap between labels owned. Once you pick a label, it switches over to all of that labels info (on that screen, as well as its finance info, roster, etc), and you can manage it like you do the studio you pick in MWR2 already. This would be for anyone who wants a hands on approach to their subsidiaries, and would allow them to do it all themselves, the way they want.

    3. A mix of the two?
    If you bought out a label, or formed your own subsidiary label, and don't want the ability to micromanage, then hire your own CEO! Since you would be the CEO of your own label, it'd only make sense for CEO's to be their own class in the editor, much like Artists are now (with their own smaller skillset, and with a much smaller pool). Hire an unemployed CEO to take over the label while you manage your own. If they aren't running the label the way you want, then fire them and hire someone else or manage it yourself. It's all about options.

    Also, with the ability for labels to be bought out, it'd be nice if AI controlled labels could offer to buy out your own label (either if you're on the brink of going bankrupt, or if you're a small up and comer who's starting to show value). This leads to...

    -CEO Mode

    I loved the concept of this when the game was first in First Access and was pretty disappointed it was nixed.

    Being bought out by another label would use your CEO Mode idea (I assume you had the idea fleshed out more than what was implemented, so why let it go to waste). You'd still manage the label, but since you aren't the owner, you'd have specific goals to meet otherwise you get fired (or whatever it was you had planned). That would be the game over moment instead of purely going bankrupt (though you could still reach that game over moment if you refuse an offer).

    If you wanted to take the CEO idea further, you could copy what a lot of the sports games (2K, Madden too I think) do management-wise, and let the player go to another company when fired. Perhaps a smaller label will be willing to hire a CEO who's had more experience and could help their struggling label, or you can just start your own new label.

    Taking over an existing label/starting your own after would continue on in the same save (so the studio you previously owned will still be there, either shut down or run by someone else), so anyone who doesn't succeed doesn't have to lose everything they've done up until that point.

    The idea for this point is to not punish the player for not knowing what to do/not succeeding. Yes, they'll lose their label (which should be punishment enough), but they won't lose their save. Letting them continue on, still able to see the impact their label and artists had on the industry while starting anew would be interesting (at least to me).

    Also, I feel like I remember seeing some people wanting to see a "Rich List" (not their word, but Chart Wars' term for the same idea), like how Chart Wars and MWR1 had where it displays how much an artist has made. If that is a system considered for implementation, it could tie into the CEO idea pretty well.

    You, the player, would earn money as a CEO (your salary). Assuming you'd have saved enough to be able to afford it, you'd have the option of buying your label back from whoever runs it. Or if it's shutdown (since bankrupt labels still appear on the Label list), allow you to reopen it if it's shut down (it'd still be owned by the person who shut it down last, so you'd have to buy it from them). You wouldn't have any of your old artists, but it'd be a nice goal to work forward to.

    With the player able to be a CEO, it'd only make sense that there would be AI controlled CEO's as well, running the other labels. They'd have their own set of stats (Business Sense, Creativity, Likability, etc) that would determine how the label is run. This would essentially replace the existing AI labels, who all seem to run pretty uniformly, and would replace them with a more dynamic stat-driven system.

    For example, a CEO who's got a good Business Sense is more likely to make smarter business decisions; using cheaper studios, writers, producers, etc. Someone who's got a high creativity skill will be more likely to sign less than mainstream acts and maybe will be more likely to give artists Creative Control. Likability could be something that'd affect sales - an unlikeable CEO may be more likely to make unfavorable comments (this could tie into a relationship system, with it being the relationship between the CEO and label) which could affect sales for that quarter.

    Mixing these skills would change things up even more. A CEO with a high Business Sense and high Creativity will sign less than popular acts, but maybe not as many, or ones with a specific Ability percentage (putting a use to that percentage) that would make sense financially. He'd be taking more risks than a CEO with only good Business Sense, but they would be smarter risks than a CEO who only cares about Creativity.

    It's fleshing out of the label AI system that MWR1 and tying it all to stats, which I think would make the game both more interesting to play due to how dynamic and different each game would be, and would allow the user to have control over subsidiaries/owned labels, were the feature added.

    Worth a mention: Though CEO's have stats, and the name the user would enter when making a game would be their CEO name, the user wouldn't have any stats since that wouldn't really make sense or be fair.

    -Talent Pool.

    This is a word I’ve thrown around a lot due to how I felt artists should be treated in game. So, let’s say you had a theoretical place and you put every artist in the game into this place, regardless if they’re in a band or not. As you recruit/scout out new artists, any generated by the game would dump them in this theoretical place. As the game progresses and new acts are generated, each artist is put in this place. This theoretical place full of theoretical artists would be the talent pool.

    Any artist tied to an act will have a flag on them (only seen on the backend), and unassigned artists will have another flag.

    Why would you do this? Well, such a thing would, in my mind, make it easier to handle the recruiting/scouting of new acts. If you’re going to build a band, instead of having the game randomly generate an amount of new artists based on the size of your search, have it pull artists from this pool and generate artists as needed. With the Talent Scout feature, you’d generate new artists for the search, but still be able to scout artists already generated that are without an act, whether they be so because their previous band disbanded, or a member that was fired. This would make use of several existing mechanics (like the firing of band members), as well as a few suggested both above and below.

    Also, it makes more sense for fired acts to be dumped into this pool than to instantly be turned into solo acts, as few fired musicians tend to go the solo route (at least outside of pop).

    Though, there is a slight problem with this feature. If such a feature were added, it'd be hard to tell one member on a list as belonging to a band, so it'd be great to have a "Group History" option added to each artist page. This could be a tab on the Artists page, or even just a table (there is a large bit of negative space there already, so why not use it), very simple, and list off any bands/groups they were previously in, as well as the years those groups were active. If you want to get detailed, double clicking one of the table fields will bring up that bands page, so you can see how successful they were. Here's a quick and dirty mock up of what I have in mind: http://i.imgur.com/sVrBHmw.png

    -More Logged Data

    A bit ambiguous title, but I’d like to see more data logged for your label. For starters, it’d be nice to have a “Roster History” or “Past Artists” segment. It doesn’t need to look fancy - could just be a simple table - but would log artists previously signed to your label, along with the years they were signed, and the label they’re currently signed to.

    Another way to log more helpful data would be to expand the “Discography” screen for each artist. Perhaps add a second page with a table containing sales data for each release from that artist. This way it’d be easier to see how an artist is selling with each release all on one page. If you format it properly - have it sort releases by the year of release - you could probably have the game generate a nifty line graph showing their sales over time, with each album/release having a dot on the graph. Though, something like this may fit better under a “Business” button/page than a “Discography” one.

    A label Discography page would be great too, that way you can see all of the albums you’ve released on your label all on one page, and see their charting positions relative to each other.

    -Learning New Instruments

    This is a bit of a pipedream for me, but a very real part of the music industry is an artist expanding their skillset and adopting a new instrument

    I imagine this feature would work the same way practicing would (mentioned below in the “Skill Degradation” section). On the individual band members page (where you’d go to assign instruments), you have a button next to Apply that says “Practice” or “Learn”. This only appears for instruments instruments that musician doesn’t know how to play (so maybe a “Learn” button is more appropriate), and you’d schedule a block of time for them to learn. Depending on their Ability and Technique (putting these new suggested skills to work), they’ll come out with a value representing their skill in that instrument.

    Situationally, this would benefit acts whose singer goes solo. Currently in game (MWR2, v1.28), it’s a bit awkward to have a lead singer to solo, leaving behind a band who doesn’t have anyone else who can sing. Realistically, the band would either search for a new singer or break up. Since we can’t recruit individual members to existing bands (if any of these suggestions get introduced, I hope it’d be this one) and dropping the band would just lead to another label signing and continuing them on without a singer, I feel like this could be an interesting way to get around this and allow acts to force an existing member to fill that role.

    The most obvious real life parallel for this would be Skrillex. He (Sonny Moore) was originally a singer/guitarist in the band, From Firs to Last. When he left the band, he began to delve into the Electronic scene, learning how to compose music and DJ. Eventually, he began releasing tracks under the name Skrillex, and is now one of the largest dubstep DJ’s in the world. Currently, without a feature like this, players wouldn’t be able to have similar stories in their game, as musicians are locked into whatever skills/instruments they’re generated with.

    -More Release Types

    I know a lot of people have been requesting this (at least on the WS forums), but I feel like if you change a few things from how MWR2 handles releases, then you could please everyone.

    For starters, release types should be able to be added/edited through the editor. They'd have their own section in the Editor, and when a release is added, all of the modifiers will be editable from this point (not from the Locations section, since that wouldn't necessarily work here). All of the things you could edit - Barriers, Min/Max Chart Increase, Sales Modifiers - would be editable on this point. You could also have a few requirements for each release, such as Min Track Requirement (for EP's and mixtapes), Live Audio/Video dependency (for live releases), video, multiple/label artists (for Samplers, more below), previously released tracks (for samplers, compilations, etc).

    The reason I suggest this is fairly simple. If we can add releases, then players can add in whatever release types they want. It's a system that takes the work off you Antuan, and allows us to add the release types we want to the game.

    Mixtapes could be an option, as well as samplers (which would be a compilation of songs from artists on your label, normally sold at a reduced price than albums). You could also expand this to include Covers as a requirement for cover albums (more mentioned below).

    If samplers were to be an option, you should be able to issue them under a Business button (I know one was originally planned in the early stages of MWR2, but such a button would be home to several features I've posted in this thread). Perhaps there's a "New Release" button the page, and clicking it opens the New Release screen. Every song released through your label appears as options for the release, and the table's sorting options are:
    Song Title | Theme | Genre | Artist | Album | S | Q%.

    Basically, the same as any artists' New Release screen, only with an Artist column so the user can tell which artist that song belongs to.

    Currently you can only approach an artist to either sign or attempt to collaborate. I mentioned in one of the above posts about Collaboration albums. Well, this could be your way of approaching an artist for such a release. If an artist agrees, then the next release will factor in that artists skills when determining song quality (not 100% sure how the math works in MWR2, but I'm sure you could figure out a way to make this work). Then the final album published will be credited under both artists Discography's.

    -Instruments (New and Editor Controlled!)

    Since non vox instruments rely on specific skills - guitar, drums, keyboard being Popular, Piano and others being Classical - it'd be great if instruments could be added in through the editor. You could have a text field where we enter the instrument name (Acoustic Guitar, Horns, Theremin, or w/e else people would want to add), and then have a drop down menu or boxes to check for whichever skill we'd want it to rely on. Here's a rough and quick mockup of what I had in mind. http://i.imgur.com/CDUhb8A.png

    On top of this, I'd love to see harsh vocals (screaming) included. A lot of metal styles incorporate screaming (some are entirely screamed), so it'd be nice to have that as an available skill for those genres. This would also be an instrument that wouldn’t be able to be added through the editor with this feature, as it’d be its own vocal category (like how Singing and Rapping are in MWR2).

    -Steam/Workshop Support

    Not so much a feature, but still something I wanted to voice my opinion on. I recall hearing that this was being looked into on the old forums, but I feel like MWR3 being available on Steam is benefitial in a variety of ways.

    For starters, Steam's a great way to get the game out there. It's a solid platform with decently non-intrusive DRM, and has a very devoted fanbase. Just getting the game onto the store with the proper tags will allow the game to reach audiences it might not have otherwise (GDS did this with two of their games, and it did seem to reach people who never played or heard of either before). I can't speak for sales, as I've never released a game on the platform, and others in the genre seem to be hit or miss (the WS titles seem to be well received, while the cheaper GDS titles were poorly received, mostly due to their price). On top of that, Steam has an optional functionality for devs to integrate into their game called the Workshop.

    The Workshop is essentially a simplified mod hub for gamers. Games with Workshop support allow users to upload their mods, and with one click, instantly download them to their PC for their game. When the mod creator puts out an update, all subscribed users will have the updated mod files downloaded automatically. On my end, this would be amazing as it'd ensure that everyone with the mod has the most up to date version available, cutting down on any issues caused by old/buggy versions. It would also act as a centralized place for others who choose to create their own mods, whatever they may be.

    I'm not sure the best or easiest way to get games up on Steam. I know both WS and GDS went through the same publisher, but if that route is out of the equation, then there's always Steam Greenlight, which is a user-voted system to get indie games on Steam. With enough votes, Valve will push the game through and release it on the store page.
    Last edited by YoungLondon; 05-25-2016, 11:49 PM.

    Comment


    • #3

      Features Either Using or Expanding Upon Existing Mechanics

      -Styles (Expanded News, Media, and more!)

      Such an underused mechanic within the game. Currently (MWR2), Styles are a blanket term used to help labels pick what genres of artists they sign. A style can encompass multiple genres, and while two styles may share genres, they never quite share the same ones. The problem is: why should this be limited to just labels? You could use styles to help liven up the news section, as well as help certain media outlets be more accurate in the genres they cover.

      Starting with the news: For those with specialized labels (this is excluding any labels who’re set to accept/sign All Styles), not all of the information presented is entirely relevant. If I’m running a punk label, or any other specific genre, then why should I care if Kanye’s contract is up for grabs? Or if the Rolling Stones contract has expired? Both of these artists, and artists of their genre, are not only not what I’m looking for but they’re also not included within the list of genres for the Style I picked. Instead, why not have the news and the ticker be specialized for my labels style?

      Does the Style of your label include only R&B and Rap artists? Let the News section only display news pertaining to artists of those styles. Or if you’re label’s style includes Punk and Pop Punk, let the News section display those genres.

      The way I see it, each Style will have a relevant News Outlet (the name of the outlet can be set through the Style’s editor page), and the News section is handled through that outlet. On the home page in game, there should be a drop down menu somewhere listing off every News Outlet. Picking one will sort to that Style, and there should be a “World News” option for people who don’t care either way or prefer to see everything. The News section of the home page should default to the Style of your label upon creation, and maybe be bolded on the drop down menu so it’s easier to return to that Outlet if the user switches off and can’t remember its title.

      The outlets and their names are really just flavor text for filters for those specific styles, but giving each of these filters a name makes it easy to pick one to sort out the news and is a bit more user friendly/graphically pleasing than just “PUNK ROCK NEWS” or “PUNK NEWS FILTER”. It can also lend itself well to a RL Mod, as you can set the news outlets to actual IRL outlets if it’s editable in the editor. And if you’re wondering “Where in the editor would you even put this?”, well, it’s easy! When creating a style, have a box labeled “News Filter Name”, and whatever is put there is the name of the News Outlet for that style. Seems simple enough.

      With the media outlets: Lots of outlets are less genre-exclusive, but more scene/style-exclusive. For example, lets look at Rise Records roster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_Re...rrent_artists).

      A lot of these artists appear in the same media outlets despite falling under different genres (Bouncing Souls being punk, Emarosa and Dance Gavin Dance being post hardcore, PVRIS being an alt rock/synthpop band). Several of these bands have been in Alt Press, as well as many other outlets.

      Now, if I were to set up a media outlet like Alt Press so these artists could all be in, my options are:
      • Set them all to the same genre and set the outlet as genre exclusive, which isn’t realistic.
      • Set the artists to their genre while keeping the media outlet unexclusive to a genre.
      The second option is how it’s currently handled in the mod, but this creates an unrealistic situation. Alt Press (I’m just using them as an example, but almost any other outlet could be used here) tends to specialize towards a handful of genres. But currently in MWR2, you can only pick one genre for a label. If you don’t set a specific genre, you could then have Rap, Pop, Country, R&B, and others go towards that outlet when it doesn't accurately match the artists they would advertise otherwise.

      My solution to this is simple: In a future iteration (or update if we’re lucky), let us set media outlets as being Style specific instead of Genre specific. This way, I could set up a Scene style (like in the mod) that encompasses the Alt Rock, Emo, Metalcore, Pop Punk, Punk genre’s that Alt Press caters to, and keep it exclusive to those artists in game.

      You could even have styles tie into the switching of genres for an artist and the hit in popularity they’ll receive. Afterall, not every genre shift will result in a dramatic, and uniform, drop when changing to a genre. Yes, typically a shift will alienate fans, but the genre shifting to is what determines the drop. Having a metalcore band switch their style to post hardcore (a genre with subtle differences to the former) shouldn’t net the same popularity drop as a shift to a more different genre, like pop or country.

      If you have the game checking to see if the new genre falls within the same style as the old one, it could then lessen the popularity drop seen by the band.

      You could also have the list of opening acts available for your artist to be pulled from other artists within genres in that Style too, which would be a bit realistic.


      -Solo/Fire Member

      A bulk of the problems with these features can be fixed in other suggestions (like the “Scheduling” suggestion below fixing both Solo acts and their previous bands touring concurrently, the “Talent Pool” section outlining where fired members would go, and the “Precedence” section fixing how the AI would determine which a solo artist is in), but there’s still some existing problems with how this mechanic was implemented.

      For starters, certain bands/acts would flat out replace kicked out/fired members in the real world. Afterall, it'd be weird for a punk or rock band to fire a drummer and just continue on without him. A recruit button would be an easy fix for this. Throw the button on the “Members” page, specify the instrument you’re looking for, and let the game do a instrument specific talent search for your new member. The talent search feature is already in game, so having it specify a specific instrument can’t be too hard. If the Talent Pool were implemented, then you’d be able to recruit already generated and inactive members easily, giving them a place to go.

      Also, I'd like there to be more feedback regarding individual members. Perhaps when you receive those pop-ups saying "Band X hasn't been showing up to practice/sessions", it could specify specific members instead. Whoever's stats contribute to the delays in the recording process. That way you'd know who the problem members are, could fire them and replace them with a less troublesome member.
      Also, if relationships were added, the firing of a member could lead to a negative relationship between the fired member and their previous band, or even the label. Though this is detailed more in the “Relationship” section.


      Last edited by YoungLondon; 05-25-2016, 11:50 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Revisions of Current Mechanics
        -Skill Degradation.

        Currently in MWR2, artists skills fluctuate from what they’re set to in the editor. From my observations, this doesn’t seem to be a feature liked by many on here, but I think it could be acceptable were it to be tweaked/expanded a bit.

        Speaking outside the game, there’s several factors that can inhibit or worsen a musician's ability. The most obvious is smoking for singers. Many singers who’ve smoked for years have lost the range and strength in their voice, while some have even lost their tone. There’s also been examples of other drugs affecting vocal performance (I recall reading an interview with Tom Delonge of Blink-182/Angels and Airwaves who claimed his change in tone from a painkiller addiction). There’s also been vocalists who use improper technique and damage their voices. In game, these both could be represented.

        The former could be represented with a skill already in MWR2: The lifestyle skill. Currently, an artist with a high lifestyle skill can lead to recording setbacks. I don’t recall the message word for word, but I do recall a few being lavish spending, worrying about their health, and missing practice. It doesn’t explicitly say it, but this implies (to me) that they’re partying. Well, an artist with a high lifestyle skill may care less about their health, and this could negatively impact their ability (drunken accidents injuring guitarists/drummers [a feature that was in MWR1 and would lead to tour delays from injury - perhaps something like this should return? wink wink, nudge nudge], long term smoking damaging vocal chords, etc).

        The latter could be represented by a new skill: Technique.

        An artist with a high technique would be one who was properly/classically trained. These musicians were taught how to play (as opposed to learning on their own), understand the instrument, and take proper care of said instrument, as well as their ability to play it. They’re seasoned musicians. Those with a low technique (people who were self taught, were never taught proper form/technique, etc) may be less likely to warm up, practice, or maintain their instrument (crucial for a vocalist as their voice is their instrument), thus leading to and explaining skill drops as they continue on with their career.

        There’s all sorts of examples to pull from of artists whose improper technique has led to a drop or change in ability. Sonny Moore (Skrillex, ex singer in From First to Last) had to have vocal surgery due to his improper singing technique, and later left the band because of it. Davey Havok (AFI) had to go on vocal rest and re-learn how to sing due to improper technique. Bert McCracken (the Used), used improper harsh vocal techniques early on, which led to him being known for vomiting on stage and, later on, had to undergo surgery on his vocal chords because of it.

        Going outside of singers, you have Pete Best who was kicked from the Beatles because of their doubts in his ability, and I believe a similar situation happened with Aubrey O’Day from Danity Kane, if you needed a pop example.

        Now, if you’re going to have abilities degrade, then you should be able to have them improve as well. With the reintroduction of the Practice feature from MWR1, you can prevent your skills from dropping, or even raise them.

        From the Activities screen, there’ll be a Practice button. Instead of practicing specific songs like in MWR1, you schedule a block of time allocated to practicing. Think of it as the band practicing together, them practicing themselves, taking lessons, or however you choose to think of it. The point of this is to repair any damage the artists may have done to themselves from poor lifestyle choices or poor technique.

        Now, to ensure the player can’t break the game by forcing artists to practice until they’re maxed out, a new skill should be introduced: Potential.

        The Potential skill would be a hidden one, set through the editor, and would act as the cap for an artist's skill. Say an guitarist has a Potential of 85, their skill for that instrument will never exceed that value through practicing. It’s the cap of their ability. Lots of other simulation games use a similar skill, most notably, sports titles; Madden, the NBA 2K series, and more.

        -Scheduling.

        Currently in MWR2, scheduling really only affects touring/recording, but is a bit broken when you factor in the Solo feature added later. If an artist goes solo, they’re still “tied” to that band, meaning they can return at any time. Whereas a fired artist can’t. The ability to hop back and forth, to me, gives intent that the artist hasn’t quit the band, but is doing both. The problem here is: schedules are band specific, not artist specific.

        Say Beyonce was in the game, as is Destiny’s Child, and both are on an AI controlled label (doesn’t matter if it’s the same label or different). The label doesn’t realize they’re linked, and has both write/record/tour as if they’re two separate artists. But if that link is there, which would mean Beyonce is in Destiny’s Child, then they both shouldn’t be able to operate concurrently.

        If each artist in a group has their own individual schedule, then you can limit a bands activity to that of each artists schedule. If one artist is recording a solo album, then the band is stalled while they do so. Realistically, this would be a period where other members would either explore projects of their own, or take a break. For some bands, one member doing this is problematic, and can lead to either the band disbanding or that member being fired.

        Such a scheduling feature would allow solo acts, side projects, and supergroups to work naturally, the way they do in real life.


        It would also fix a minor oversight in how MWR2 handles festivals. Currently, longer festivals (like Warped or Mayhem festivel in the RLMod) can span over a period of a month or longer. If you’ve had previous things booked at this time and accept the festival invite, both events happen at the same time. The schedule may only have one listed, but both do happen. If the scheduling system were to be revised, this could be fixed. If an event conflicts with a festival, then allow the game to not invite the act to the festival (easily solution) or have them miss those days of the festival that they conflict with (harder solution, would be best for larger festivals like Warped and Mayhem, for realism's sake).

        -Side/Other Projects

        This ties into the Supergroup and Talent Pool features. Currently in MWR2, artists have the option to go solo. If you play with the editor, you can set up artists to have side projects, but neither really work due to the scheduling issues mentioned above. Were they to be fixed, you’d really have the ability to flesh out these alternate acts.

        First off, I’d remove or increase the limit of acts a musician can be in. Ideally, it’d be unlimited (I’ll get to the reasoning below), but a higher cap would work too. Acts could then be categorized in four ways: Solo, Main Band, Side Project, Supergroup.

        Two of these categories would have a cap, Solo and Main Band, while Side Projects and Supergroups would be more numerous.The reasoning for this is purely to log data. It represents the artists who tend to make one off creative projects, but still also keep the information logged within the game, making the world seem more alive.

        However, introducing more act types does nothing to alleviate the AI problem. After all, if the AI knows an artist belongs to two acts, but doesn’t have time in their schedule for one, then how would that second not just sit there idly? The solution to this is precedence.

        Every artist in game will have a precedence, a leaning towards certain act types. Depending on what they’re set to, the artist will find more time for the act that falls under that type than others, thus affecting their recording schedule.

        Using Jack White as a real world example, his precedence would look something like this:

        Solo Act, Side Project, Main Band, Supergroup.

        He was previously in the White Stripes, now disbanded, which explains the lower precedence for Main Band. In recent years, he’s released more solo albums than anything, though still maintains presence in his side band, The Dead Weather. He’s also had other side projects, such as the Raconteurs, and managed both during his run in the White Stripes (explaining the higher precedence for Side Projects), and has never been in a Supergroup (explaining the low precedence for that).

        In game, an artist with the same precedence would spend two or so years focusing on their solo project, then switch to their side project and spend maybe a year or so focusing on that. Touring would be minimal, if at all. Then the focus would shift either back to the Solo Act, or would go for another limited stint with either: the next Side Project (if available), or the Main Band (if available).

        If the main band were further up the list, then it’d lessen time spent on side projects, making them feel more one-off (as many are). As mentioned further above in the Relationships section, this could also dampen relationships between artists in the project if that act is of different precedence to them, and could lead to the group disbanding or them firing that member.
        Last edited by YoungLondon; 05-25-2016, 11:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Implementation of Previous Mechanics


          -Relationships and Random Events

          MWR1 had two great mechanics that should not only make a return, but should also be expanded. These are the Relationships and Random Events mechanics.

          I remember seeing some posts on the WS forums about how these were minor features that didn’t really add anything. And that might have been true in MWR1; these were to minor features that helped flesh out the world and make it seem more alive and add to the narrative the player forms.

          These would be things like "Artist X and Artist Y are now dating" or "Artist X and Artist Y had been caught by the paparazzi". These are fun, would affect nothing and would just be little inbox messages helping to flesh out the universe the user is playing in. Short of having a system to track relationships, this seems like it would be a pretty minor thing to add overall. And were they added, you could have these messages flagged as "Relationships", and allow the users to disable them via an inbox filter or something.

          But, who says their reintroduction has to be exactly the same? Why not expand upon these too.

          Certain skills in MWR2 (Controversy, Lifestyle), and a few new ones suggested in this thread (specifically, technique) are ones that can be problematic for bands/artists in the real world. Members who say/do controversial things, have destructive personalities, or artist whose skills (or lack thereof) get in the way, tend to ruin relationships with their bandmates and get fired. Assuming relationships were to be added, inter-musician relationships would be an interesting way of having members come and go from a band.

          Using a real world example, there’s a singer named Jonny Craig. He originally fronted Dance Gavin Dance, was later fired due to conflicts with other members. He then joined another band, Emarosa, and left shortly after for the same reasons. He even formed a supergroup with several other big members in the scene, all of whom don’t talk to him nor have wanted to continue the project with him, Inbetween bands, he ended up running a scam online, ripping off his fans, and was denied an appearance on The Voice due to all of this controversy. He then later rejoined Dance Gavin Dance, and was later fired when his drug addiction conflicted with his ability to tour, and has since started his own band. With only one release down, one of the members left, citing Craig and his personality as being the issue.

          Now I know this is an extreme example, but it’s a perfect real life example to pull from. Were he in game, he’d have a high controversy and lifestyle stats due to his drug addled past and all of the controversy around him. It would then make sense then that such a person in game would ruin relationships with other bandmates, thus leading to them getting fired or starting/joining a new band. So, how would this be handled?

          This may be a bit ambitious, but I always wished the relationship system in MWR1 was like that of another game, Crusader Kings II. In CKII, everyone in the world had an opinion of others in the world, regardless of the distance between the two nations. That opinion would sway based on the stats, skills, and decisions made by each character. It’s a neat idea, but not one that’d translate fully into a game like MWR. I envision it working like this:

          Relationships are determined via a sliding bar. -100 is the lowest it goes, 100 is the highest, and 0 is in the middle. -100 would mean one artist hates another, while 100 means they’re best friends or in some form of relationship. 0 could represent an acquaintance/no opinion held. Each artists opinion is shifting up and down this bar based on a variety of factors.

          Say someone gets fired from a band due to a drug issue/high lifestyle? Other musicians with low lifestyle’s would frown upon it, leaving a negative opinion, while those with high wouldn’t be phased. Or maybe they’d even like that kind of attitude. Poor ability/technique could also lead to negative opinions from those with high ability/technique.

          If Random Events were reintroduced, some of the old ones from MWR1 (like an artist having to cancel tour due to a broken limb) could affect the relationships of those around him. Bandmates may get peeved that their tour is cancelled, while opening acts may be livid that their potential big break is now gone (this could scale depending on the popularity of the opening act).

          You could take this system one step further and have it work between CEO’s (mentioned in the “CEO Mode” section) and labels, or artists and labels. Or any combination. Send an artist on a tour with low morale? Each musician’s opinion of you will go down. Change recording options (Subjects, schedule, adding/removing writers and producers) when you’ve given them creative control? The opinion will go down.

          Each band/group will have a displayed opinion of your label and others, and this is an average of each members opinion. If it gets too low, not only will they not want to resign with you, but any future bands from those musicians will be less likely to sign with you. Even three out of four have a positive or neutral opinion, that fourth member may be enough to sway the band to sign with another label instead of you. And of course, all of this changes in time. Relationships will slowly level back out to the median (0) over time without any input affecting them one way or the other, and, if these negative examples (firing, controversy, drug use, etc) stack, then they’d go away sooner for first time offenders than those who have a history of these issues.

          Those constant offenders will have these negative events tied to them, and they’ll affect more established musicians and labels more drastically than lesser ones. This means an artist who has a history of issues with previous bands will be unable to find existing, established musicians to work with and larger labels to sign them. They’ll have to form a new band, with members previously unknown to the scene, and hope to sign to new or smaller labels.

          Not everything done needs to be negative though. Members in successful bands may have positive relationships with smaller musicians, even if it’s one-sided, purely by being inspirational. They may look up to these more established musicians, and that leaves them more friendly. Bigger musicians will also have more respect for each other, barring any negative incidents, and this is multiplied within the scene (a Rock musician might have respect for Chester Bennington and Katy Perry, but will probably have moreso of Bennington because of the music scene they share).

          So, to tie this into my earlier example with Jonny Craig: Having first left DGD for publicly known reasons, this would cause his next band, Emarosa, to be reluctant (they’ve spoken publicly about their hesitations). So in game, these actions would be enough to drop peoples opinion of him, but since it’s a first time issue, it’s not enough to make him unemployable in existing bands.

          Then leaving Emarosa for public reasons, he formed a new band (the supergroup) with more people who were reluctant to, and when he left, he was able to rejoin his old band. This would be reflected by their opinions leveling out from him and being high enough to rehire him. Once he got kicked again, and a pattern is evident, other established musicians opinions of him will be too low for them to want to work with them and AI labels not wanting to sign him and deal with unneeded controversy. This results in him having to start a new band, with members who weren’t in previously successful bands before, and resulted in him signing to a new, up and coming label. His controversy and drug addiction made him too much of a liability for established musicians and labels to take the gamble on, so he had to essentially “start over”, and work his way back up.

          In game, this would be the breakdown of his actions/choices and how they’d affect others:
          Kicked From Previous Band : -25
          Known Drug Addict : -15
          Kicked From Previous Band : -35
          Known Problematic Personality : -25
          Kicked From Previous Band : -50

          Repeat offences stack as they happen. So if an artist is kicked/fired multiple times, others start to detect there may be a reason it happens aside from label politics. Certain other issues, like the drug addict, may not be an issue to other addicts. It’s a bit copying from CKII, but they’re some interesting ideas to keep in mind. I call this: Artist to Artist Relationships

          Some other things that may affect artist to artist relationships:
          Creative Differences : -25 (given to artists who differ creatively*).
          Went Solo : -50 (this is given to bands who had a member go solo and leave them behind)
          Shirking Responsibilities: -25 (focusing too much on other projects - more on this further below)
          Rejected Collaboration Offer : -15 (given to bands who’s invited guest who refused their collaboration offer)
          Kicked from Tour : -25 (given when a band or artist is kicked from tour
          Tour Cancelled : -50 (given when a tour is cancelled - this is directed at the source of the cancellation, whether it be the label, problematic member, or injury).
          Shared the Road : +50 (given to a band when another band takes them on as an opener)
          Guest Spot : +15 (given to an artist who appears on a collaboration
          Frequent Producer : +25 (given to a producer who frequently works with a specific artist)
          Frequent Client : +25 (given to a band/artist who frequently works with a specific producer)
          (the two above can be repeated and duplicated for Songwriters, Directors, and any others added in a future iteration)

          *This could be determined by an artists preferred genre, which is currently set-able in the MWR2 editor.

          And to take this even further, if the previously mentioned CEO feature is added, then other labels and bands will form opinions of you too based on your actions. Let’s call this: Artists to Label Relationships.

          If you force too many artists to tour too much, or if you have artists sit around inactive too long, then people will start to form a negative opinion of you. They may think you work artists too hard (touring too much/working constantly with low morale) or that you don’t care for the artist (leaving them inactive for periods of time). But if you’re able to turn a profit, expand your label, all while keeping your artists happy, you’ll be raising a positive opinion from others. Here’s some examples of things that could affect artist opinions of you:

          Tour Cancelled : -50 (given when a tour is cancelled - this is directed at the source of the cancellation, whether it be the label, problematic member, or injury).
          Cheap: -15 (given when you consistently schedule artists with the cheapest producers, studios, or directors).
          Known Tyrant : -50 (for working artists too hard)
          Stifling Creativity : -50 (for changing artist chosen settings if Creative Control was given)
          Fired Liked Members : -50 (for firing members the rest of the band liked)
          Offered Solo Deal : +50 (for offering an artist a solo contract)
          Offered Great Deal : +50 (for good record deal/deal in artists favor)
          Offered Creative Control : +25
          Flexible Scheduler : +15 (for allowing extensions if any recording delays occur)
          Open Wallet : +20 (for covering any extra recording costs caused by delays)
          Fired Disliked Members : +50 (for firing any problem causing members)

          (Values are just rough ideas used to get the point of the mechanic across.)

          I’m not sure if you noticed, but some of these will vary by members in bands and won’t be universal. Say you have two people causing problems, and you fire one. The rest of the band will get the “Fired Disliked Members”, causing them to be happy you intervened. The other problematic member may dislike that, as would anyone who didn’t consider the fired member to be a problem.

          The last type of relationship this system could cover would be Artist to Media/Public.

          In MWR1, artists had both Reputation and Popularity, and this was changed for MWR2. I feel like both of these could be added into a future iteration, with media events affecting your artists Popularity.

          This would act as a good indicator as to how the public perceives your artist, positively or negatively, and, more importantly, what it is they’re doing to receive this rating. Just like above, there’s several things that can affect this rating:

          Tour Cancelled: -25
          Drug Addict: -25
          Unsuccessful Live TV Performance: -25
          Unsuccessful Interview: -10
          Entered Into Rehab: +25
          Successful Interview: +10
          Successful Live TV Performance: +25

          The media appearances could be broken down even further, with print ads/interviews being included and less harmful/helpful than radio or recorded interviews, but this should get the point across. You could also make this system work with “Label to Media” relationships, though I haven’t been able to successfully plan out how it’d work.

          Going outside of the relationship sides of the Random Events, you can tie in various business aspects to the Random Events mechanic. A huge blockbuster movie is coming out and needs a song to play during the credits? Tie it to an event, giving you a small amount of money (the licensing fee) and giving the single and artist a boost in popularity. A new video game comes out and wants one of your bands songs in its soundtrack? Again, a small boost in money and popularity for the artist and track. Small things like this can allow a mechanic to be more dynamic and useful for the user.


          Overall, such a feature adds a layer of complexity to the game that wasn’t there before. It would also add to the things that would change with an increased difficulty, instead of just the region popularity falloff. Higher difficulties could yield more stark changes in values, making certain artists or media appearances more costly/dangerous, whereas lower would have minimal effect, or even turn the feature off.

          -Subjects (aka, “Multiple Song Themes”)

          A while back, someone mentioned they wanted to be able to record multiple themes for one recording session, akin to MWR1, and I opposed this as a feature for MWR2 due to how MWR2 handled themes in generating the percentages for songs recorded with said theme. Because of this, I stand by my opinion with the same logic. But, if you changed how MWR3 handles recording and themes, you could easily implement this feature while pleasing both sides of the argument.

          First off, reintroduce Subjects from MWR1, while still keeping themes. Themes will be the Parent grouping of the two, like in MWR1, only this time, the Themes will still retain their stat dependencies (like in MWR2). The Subject will be the flavor text grouped under the parent Theme (without any stat dependency), like in MWR1.

          So, let’s say you had a Theme titled “Love Songs”. This could pull from a variety of stats - Mainstream, Singing, Sex Appeal, etc - just how it works now. And under that theme, you have a variety of Subjects - First Love, Falling in Love, Teen Love, Love at First Sight, etc (ideally, each theme would have dozens of Subjects under them for diversity’s sake).

          When you send your artist into the studio to record, and select “Love Songs” as the theme, all of the songs written and recorded will display their Subjects next to them instead of the theme, giving the album not only a diverse subject matter, but subjects that are all related and appropriate together.

          Were Subjects to be reintroduced, I also believe adding them through the editor should be handled slightly differently.

          Like in MWR1, there should be a Subject section of the editor. Here, you’ll add all of the subjects you want available for each theme. Though, instead of associating them with each Theme through the Subjects section (like in MWR1), shift this to the Theme section. This can be done through a table on the Themes section (like how MWR2 has a table for Genre exclusive themes), allowing us to add multiple subjects to a theme. Doing it this way would also allow subjects to be reused within multiple themes, assuming they fit the themes they’re added to.

          -Subsidiary Recording Studios

          In MWR1, you were able to form your own (which could be used at no cost to your artist - you'd only pay monthly/annual fees required to upkeep the studio), as well as the ability to buy out other existing recording studios (and shut them down/auction off later if you don't have the funds to run it). This was a nice feature, and a great way to spend capital once you established yourself as a profitable label, as well as a new source of income, and should be added in a future iteration.

          Managing the studios could either be automated (no micromanaging of staff, fixed recording rate determined by studio quality/popularity), or a slider for the recording rates so the user can set how much it'd cost for AI artists to record there. With the second way, the player would have more options when it comes to income (the more ways to make money, the better IMO).

          I think this system would be nice. If you dislike the idea of having to open and pay for your own recording studio, then you could just skip it and use other studios, and keep playing how you do now.
          Last edited by YoungLondon; 05-25-2016, 11:50 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Amazing dude, one thing that i think is silly but would fun to add is to be able to practice/rehearse for tours this would help to improove the reviews of the tour and etc and to be able to see how the tickets sales for tours are going...

            Comment


            • #7
              FYI everything in suggestions is being read and considered; I take your feedback seriously. You're all going to help make this the best music sim of all time.
              [email protected]

              Comment


              • #8
                Tourning:

                I think it would be really great to at the tourning sistem the option to co-headline a tour... Also be able to chose any act of any kind to open for you not only the same genre like pop only opens for pop...

                Of course be able to release DVD's from concerts but it would be amazing to has also offers for a concert be record to be broadcast in tv (like Monster Ball at HBO, Bangerz Tour at NBC, Femme Fatale at EPIX)

                Be able to do choose the setlist of course

                Another thing that i think that would ne interesting for tours is when we put our acts on tour let's say that the Staples Center has a capacity of 21,000 people but there's acts that only uses half of the arena, would be cool to choose how many tickets we want to put on sale

                like depending on the album sales we could choose like 19,450 even if the capacity is 21,000 and if the album didn't do so great and we want to be realistic we should put like 9,500... this would be a option for those who want to do this, and while selecting the dates people would only change the capacity (only lower) if they want to, so those who doesn't want to bother don't need to do, i think it's a really good idea, expecially for arenas and stadiums

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by antuan View Post
                  FYI everything in suggestions is being read and considered; I take your feedback seriously. You're all going to help make this the best music sim of all time.
                  I know you said the same thing on the WS forums, but I wasn't sure if you had designs/plans finalized yet for MWR3. That's great to hear!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm still working out the core features. These are all great suggestions and I want to implement nearly everything. We will see.
                    [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's the thing that i'm talking about, the singrs use the arenas in very different ways so it would be good to choose how much tickets you want to put on sale for the tour (THIS WOULD BE AN OPTION FOR EACH ONE WHO WANTS, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO CHANGE UNLESS THAT YOU GO THERE AND DO IT)

                      77
                      Demi Lovato, Cher Lloyd, Fifth Harmony, Little Mix
                      Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum
                      Uniondale, N.Y. March 11, 2014
                      $537,637
                      11,272 / 11,272
                      1 / 1
                      $64.50, $15
                      Live Nation

                      18
                      Marc Anthony, Tito El Bambino
                      Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum
                      Uniondale, N.Y. Feb. 15, 2015
                      $1,245,960 16,954 / 16,954
                      1 / 1
                      $199, $59
                      Cardenas Marketing Network


                      I think it would be nice also about production and rehearsles but that's just me i hope you consider
                      Last edited by luuizhenriquem; 07-16-2015, 06:33 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nice, I was going to make a thread with my own suggestions but you pretty much have everything covered lol.

                        I feel like the game need some sort of fatigue factor though or is this already covered by morale?

                        I think being able to create your own studio is a must. In this day and age it is normal to record albums/EP in the comfort of your own home which does not cost anything but maintenance. I was thinking engineers should be in the game but I guess that could be tied to the studio quality.

                        To expand on companies buying out smaller companies. I think parent and child companies would be a must have for the simple use of financial support.

                        You should be able to sign songwriters and producers to your label. Pretty much making them in house producers/songwriters which would be cheaper than going outside the label and you can make money off of them when they work outside of the house.

                        Speaking of having in house producers and using them for a bargain. Free lance producers should be hard to get to work with. Producers (at least in hip hop) are really protective of who they work with unless you over pay them. So as a fairly new artist you might have to over pay a top producer in other to get them on your album vs a well known super star.

                        You should have to pay for media or get invited for free ads or radio time/TV time. You should have to pay for unsolicited media opportunities, This gives us more things to spend money on.
                        Last edited by RealProducer; 10-12-2015, 05:34 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RealProducer View Post
                          Nice, I was going to make a thread with my own suggestions but you pretty much have everything covered lol.

                          I feel like the game need some sort of fatigue factor though or is this already covered by morale?

                          I think being able to create your own studio is a must. In this day and age it is normal to record albums/EP in the comfort of your own home which does not cost anything but maintenance. I was thinking engineers should be in the game but I guess that could be tied to the studio quality.

                          To expand on companies buying out smaller companies. I think parent and child companies would be a must have for the simple use of financial support.

                          You should be able to sign songwriters and producers to your label. Pretty much making them in house producers/songwriters which would be cheaper than going outside the label and you can make money off of them when they work outside of the house.

                          Speaking of having in house producers and using them for a bargain. Free lance producers should be hard to get to work with. Producers (at least in hip hop) are really protective of who they work with unless you over pay them. So as a fairly new artist you might have to over pay a top producer in other to get them on your album vs a well known super star.

                          You should have to pay for media or get invited for free ads or radio time/TV time. You should have to pay for unsolicited media opportunities, This gives us more things to spend money on.
                          All of this sounds great. Especially signing writers and producers to your label.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ben Patrick View Post

                            All of this sounds great. Especially signing writers and producers to your label.
                            Thanks, I was just brainstorming some Ideas. I just started playing the game again after a long lay off.

                            Signing songwriters could be fun as they can potentially become an artist with some development if things like practice are added to the new version. Not to mention they are another source of income. It should be difficulty to land songwriters and producer though as they are better off working independently. It should vary by reputation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Loving all these ideas!
                              Expanding slightly on Tours... I think it would be cool if you could design a stage set, I know currently you can just set a production budget or something, but it would be quite cool that you could choose what goes on stage, like a banner, how many amps, how many crew you would need, a type of tour bus (the better the bus the less tired / exhausted the act gets from travelling)... Just something more interesting to personalise how a tour's stage set up looks like?

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